Comment on Curing the Comment Drought

  1. A_Friendly_Irin on Chapter 1 Sat 18 Apr 2020 08:54PM UTC

    I feel it's a gift the writers gift us.

    I don't understand that analogy. You did not explicitly request the fic, and you do not personally own it. You're under no obligation to enjoy a gift you did not ask for.

    For example I read a fic that had a 'wrong tag' and I saw a comment that the writer deliberately lured the fans in and made them feel horrible on purpose. That kind of comment is ridiculous to me.

    While such a harsh accusation may be unwarranted, I do think it's fair if you feel something was mistagged. "Don't like, don't read" goes out the window the moment you falter in advertising -- if people can't know they won't like it until they've read it, it's not fair to tell them they should have known not to bother in the first place.

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    1. [Deleted] (Guest) on Chapter 1 Sat 18 Apr 2020 08:54PM UTC

      The moment you open a fic on AO3 you're asking for a gift by people that don't even know you. I am no longer enjoying your research, I feel like I'm justifying my reasoning and that's not why I answered your questions. Therefore I choose to no further be a part of your research. Good luck.

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      1. A_Friendly_Irin on Chapter 1 Sat 18 Apr 2020 08:55PM UTC

        I feel like I'm justifying my reasoning and that's not why I answered your questions

        ?????

        Learning and justifying reasoning is the entire thing I was asking for.

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    3. Another Anon (Guest) on Chapter 1 Mon 20 Apr 2020 01:14AM UTC

      I don't understand that analogy. You did not explicitly request the fic, and you do not personally own it. You're under no obligation to enjoy a gift you did not ask for.

      This is a little obtuse. IRL, gifts are typically given freely, not asked for. Even if you receive a gift IRL that you don't like, do you complain about it to the person who gave it to you? I hope not, because that's incredibly ungrateful.

      As I stated in a comment down the page, fandom is a community, and it requires engagement from all parties. Artists and writers are huge contributors to the fandom machine, but for some reason, people expect writers to produce, produce, produce while receiving very little in return. Fanfiction doesn't typically get shared on platforms such as Tumblr and Twitter. On AO3, kudos and comments are often the only validation and engagement writers receive for their work, and AO3 doesn't have nearly the same traffic and reach as the aforementioned social platforms.

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      1. A_Friendly_Irin on Chapter 1 Mon 20 Apr 2020 01:39AM UTC

        gifts are typically given freely

        A fic is not given freely. You do not own it afterwards.

        IRL, gifts are also typically given to individuals as a personal exchange. With the exception of gift fics (which do indeed have different norms surrounding them), this is not the case for fics.

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        1. Another Anon (Guest) on Chapter 1 Mon 20 Apr 2020 01:54AM UTC

          So if someone gifts you an experience, such as rock climbing, it's not actually a gift?

          There's no point in discussing this topic further. Your definition of "gift" is too narrow.

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          1. A_Friendly_Irin on Chapter 1 Mon 20 Apr 2020 10:19AM UTC

            "We disagree, so there's not point in discussing this topic further on this discussion post."

            Christ. Grow a spine, people.

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            1. Another Anon (Guest) on Chapter 1 Tue 21 Apr 2020 08:44PM UTC

              It's not about disagreement. It's about not seeing a path forward in the discussion.

              The point the original poster made about seeing fanfics as a gift to the fandom is valid, but you're being pedantic in your definition of what a gift is. It just comes across like you're trying to dismiss the poster's opinion—and, by extension, mine—because their definition of the word doesn't align with yours. I have explained why some people see fanfic as a gift, and your responses have been "This is why it can't be a gift."

              Therefore, I see no purpose in debating further and am tapping out.

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    5. onewomancitadel on Chapter 1 Fri 21 Jan 2022 06:34AM UTC

      I am practising the comment culture thing here: I take it that you're ok with replying to old comments? If not, please let me know.

      I think that the equivalent metaphor I would use here to a gift is rather bringing food to a public luncheon which you have definitely seen before but allow me to elaborate my perspective on it, if you please. I think it's weird if you sit there and stare at somebody whilst they're eating and beg for praise, but equally I'm not bringing in the food with the intention that I receive critique - it's not a food competition. I'm not trying to compete - and be better than other fic authors, for instance - and part of the joy in bringing the food is both making it and other people eating it. Some people won't be interested because they don't like that sort of food, and it's ok. It's there if they want it. But if somebody really likes it and we end up connecting over the recipe... that's a good thing!

      To continue further with the metaphor: when we had lunches at uni for the final day of class as something fun, it was established who had what allergies in the class and we were all mindful of that. So, I believe it is socially mindful to denote what's in a story. I don't tag for particular trigger warnings, but I do make mention of things that may be relevant in a story and in my Author's Note I specify a blanket warning for potentially upsetting and triggering content, both because I'm extremely neurotic and I also am undisturbed by most things and things escape me (e.g. I have one fic tagged 'Themes of pregnancy' because that is a thing in the story, but I'm not tagging it as a warning, but the readers know this is present in the story). If that's not ok for readers, they don't need to read - curating our experience goes both ways. If somebody takes issue with my fic on this front I don't think I have any more responsibility than that (not especially as published literature certainly doesn't) - but I do note if people have individual triggers they can always ask. I have extremely specific triggers myself which are absolutely never tagged, and I don't expect to run into it very often, but I actually did in my one of my favourite (published) romance books - so that's interesting and a separate question about how to handle author responsibility.


      "Don't like, don't read" goes out the window the moment you falter in advertising -- if people can't know they won't like it until they've read it, it's not fair to tell them they should have known not to bother in the first place.

      I think in the case of actually tagging a ship incorrectly, this is fair, so I'd like to specify that... however I resist the idea of 'advertising', but then, I also generally resist 'stories as products' as an idea, and yes, this extends to copyright culture now as well, lol, which is a complete other question.

      Sorry, I'm going off topic from this now... my point is that a fic is not a gift so much as it is something to be shared, and if you earnestly made something and wanted critical feedback on it - which in the household I lived in with my best mate we did do that, particularly with how often we cooked and shared ideas - but in that case, it was a one-on-one with people I knew who also otherwise enjoyed what I made. I take criticism much more seriously from people whose taste I know - so that's also an element - and I've also received conflicting criticism! So, parsing what's helpful is another question.

      However, I have explicitly made a fic a gift: there was a Christmas gift to my readers which my regulars knew was for them. So that's a sincere case of an actual gift.

      As I said in my other comments to you however, the approach of sharing/extolling in fandom appears to be a significant divider between us, and I also think there are social nuances here at play - I'm not even sure how much this may indeed be a cultural thing, in fact.

      I have some further thoughts about comment frequency and fandom size, but I've already given you enough to digest, but it is on the topic of me anecdotally studying comment sections. There are some comments sections I've seen that are REALLY popular for otherwise esoteric ships - with very active 'I love it!' culture and little author response - which are also somewhat cliquey, protective fandoms, because of... well, they can be somewhat 'controversial' ships (i.e. enemies to lovers, anything Reylo adjacent - yes hi sorry I'm a Reylo). So there is a fostered community due to perceived out-group outrage. I guess it comes back to community-building, which is a pervasive question in the comments here!

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