Comment on Pack

  1. Danaeka on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 07:48PM UTC

    Same, I mean I get it, I still like Ellen Page to bits, but, honestly it felt forced, and people only like it because it's lesbians, if they wanted lgbt Klaus was there. And people are starting to like Vanya... Just because she's lgbt because almost no one liked her on season 1. I feel like imtgey could've used a slow burn for the relationship. But no, Sissy was married and unhappy, she cheated, Vanya had no idea who she was so I felt Sissy used her... Anyway ;-;

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    1. Vault_Of_Daydreams on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 08:42PM UTC

      Yeah I loved vanya from the start, I found her story the most sympathetic and overall compelling. Plus I do have a soft spot since Ellen page played my favorite X Men character. I felt like it was super cheap to make her a lesbian because nothing had really pointed to it. A lot of people bring up her wardrobe as a sign of her being a lesbian too, which I found super ridiculous. It was a request made by Ellen over her comfort preference. I feel like if they wanted to make vanya a part of the LGBTQ community the could have made her BI, PAN, or ACE and still have provided representation with having it seem like pigeonholing. It also just makes me uncomfortable about what that would imply for the character. That vanya is so desperate for any form of affection that she would put herself in a Toxic relationship where she doesn’t feel any attraction whatsoever to her partner.

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      1. Vault_Of_Daydreams on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 08:47PM UTC

        I’m really not a fan cheating in media either. It can turn me off of even my favorite characters, which it kind of did for me when I first heard about vanya’s storyline. It meant she was in another toxic relationship. It wasn’t abusive, but it wasn’t honest or healthy in any way. I think sissy works great as a friend , or even a sister or mentor for vanya in finding out who she wants to be. I think making the love interests was just cheap, cause you know from the start it isn’t going to last. Vanya can’t stay in the past, and sissy can’t go to the future. The same with Allison and ray, and Klaus and Dave. I didn’t really like any of the relationships this seaso to be honest.

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        1. Danaeka on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 09:06PM UTC

          I wanted to like Sissy, I honestly did, because she seemed sweet in the first few episodes, and honestly Carl's death was uncalled for, that was a normal mind set back then, it wasn't even that aggressive the way he reacted, seriously, she was cheating with his wife under HIS roof, I would get mad too. All the season's relationships felt rushed, Ray was just to console Allison, she used him, Dave was a coping mechanism for Klaus, he used him, Sissy used Vanya as a 'what if' She used her, Lila used Diego to get to Five, she used him. So shit.

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          1. Vault_Of_Daydreams on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 09:55PM UTC

            I also didn’t like the relationship from Diego’s perspective either because like vanya he went from being cell buddies with this random girl in an asylum of all places, to suddenly being in love with her! Like what ? What about Eudora who you were basically obsessed with all of first season, and who you found a trained assassin for out of grief and revenge. Granted I also didn’t like that relationship either cause I felt like the two didn’t truly respect each other.

            The show as good as it is, has a tendency to put characters on ice when they are no longer useful (Eudora, Hazel, Elliot, Dave). I wouldn’t be thrilled either if my spouse brought home some stranger to live with us, and then had an affair with them in my home, under my nose. Not only that but also plan to run away together with my child? I would lose my shit, but because they aren’t straight suddenly it’s all okay.

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            1. Danaeka on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 11:10PM UTC

              Same, and Carl, even if he did come as a bit of a douche at times, he deeply cared for Harlan. Sissy just needed to fucking talk to him. But no ;-; maybe they should've wrote his as abusive, then it would've made sense

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              1. Vault_Of_Daydreams on Chapter 4 Wed 19 Aug 2020 12:17AM UTC

                This fandom doesn’t seem to understand the difference between being a dick and being abusive. Doug and sissy’s relationship could never truly work since the attraction was one sided, and doug didn’t have any way of truly knowing that until the affair came out. They both really sucked at communication, though it’s a little more understandable considering the topic and the time period. Maybe it’s just me but I feel like they were trying to write Harlan as autistic, and that would also complicate their family dynamic. I found it nice how even though his parents relationship was shit, and vanya being involved didn’t help, Harlan was able to bond with vanya in a way he didn’t with his parents. It’s the only relationship I feel bad about seeing end. Especially now that he had some kind of powers

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      3. Danaeka on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 09:03PM UTC

        Yes. Honestly I hate that her wardrobe is a 'sign' dude, I dress formally, like, jeans, dress shirt and vest, with vans, I have short ass hair and I'm by no means a lesbian, so it bothers me, because I've had so many problems since media paints all male dressing female character as lesbians that the market is starting to take everyone of us with that preference as a lesbian, and if we say no, we're closeted.

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        1. Vault_Of_Daydreams on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 10:00PM UTC

          I feel like Vanya’s wardrobe improved greatly this season. Her clothes fit her so much better, and it didn’t have to be anything overly feminine. Yet it still carries its own stereotypes of her wearing plaid being an another indicator that she’s a lesbian. She’s living on a farm and most likely wearing sissy’s clothes seeing as she didn’t have time to pack a suitcase before coming to the sixties. And as much as sissy likes vanya, I can’t see her and Carl going out and buying her her own personal wardrobe.

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          1. Danaeka on Chapter 4 Tue 18 Aug 2020 11:08PM UTC

            Exactly. I really loved her wardrobe And now I noticed I never finished my explanation here. What I wanted to say is that many people complain about certain stereotypes about gays and lesbians and how they should be eliminated, and said how Vanya's character representes that 'perfection' ... Uh excuse you? 'Dessing manly means you're a lesbian' is exactly the type of stereotype I would want to dissolve. I dress with (for example) jeans, a vest the same color of the jeans and a plain dress shirt. Very 'manly' but also formal and elegant, I wear little makeup (just Eyeliner and eyelash liner) and have short hair... And I've gotten so many confessions of female friends that are lesbians, or people offering support when I 'eventually' come out of the closet, like... Dude wtf? I'm not saying I hate lesbians not at all. I just hate the stereotypes surrounding lesbians and just how many people seem to forget that not all of us are 'closeted' sorry this turned into a rant 😂

            Last Edited Sat 22 Aug 2020 11:51PM UTC

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            1. Danaeka on Chapter 4 Sat 22 Aug 2020 11:54PM UTC

              And I had already ranted about this in an upper comment so... Sorry (? 😅😅 but back to Vanya. This could've been written better, not that many people mind CHEATING on someone and the BLAMING THAT SOMEONE but anyway...

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              1. Vault_Of_Daydreams on Chapter 4 Sun 23 Aug 2020 02:45AM UTC

                I’m so pissed I had a whole long response typed out and just as I was gonna send it I pressed cancel! I don’t mind if you repeat yourself, god knows I’ve probably done it a million times since the beginning of this conversation! I find the idea of the way you dress being indicative of your sexuality ridiculous. This fandom is quite guilty of this problem with Vanya, Klaus and even Diego. It’s like the thought of comfort hasn’t crossed peoples’ minds. Larger clothes tend to be more comfortable that form fitting outfits.

                I’m honestly not a huge fan of the cheating trope because it tends to just reflect poorly on otherwise likable characters. If your willing to do that to someone else how can you truly be angry when it happens to you is my opinion. I feel like a lot of people are supportive of it because it’s happening between two women. God knows if vanya had another male love interest and he was married people would lose their shit for a number of reasons. Maybe it’s a little hypocritical of me that I didn’t mind it as much with five and Delores because she is originally a mannequin, and is only humanized for plot development. I also just prefer that to creating a female OC to serve as the jilted wife.

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                1. Danaeka on Chapter 4 Sun 23 Aug 2020 03:03AM UTC

                  I actually hadn't thought it though that I did -without meaning to- wrote a cheating Five here... I'll go back and edit that because I honestly didn't think it though, I will say they're going though a divorce only that no one knows yet since it's almost complete... Ugh I wanna hit myself in the butt now.

                  And yeah, I used Delores because she was already an important character in S1 and I tend to like my OCs... So... But I'll fix that. I feel like when Vanya goes back to Sissy, she's gonna be in a relationship, engaged or even married again, since she seems like that kind of woman. J honestly really wanted to like Sissy, since I'm usually a sucker for LGBT+ couples, cue Klaus and Dave, John and Sherlock, Karolina and Nico, heck even Allison and Vanya, but Sissy herself rings many bells in my head BECAUSE SHE CHEATED, but go tell Twitter and Instagram that and they lose their shit.

                  Vanya just deeply messed up this time around with this particular thing for me, she's still my favorite... But I can't watch season 2 episode 4 or 7 (I believe that's when they have sex again...) Because she's fucking married! I honestly.. I need a break xd

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                  1. Vault_Of_Daydreams on Chapter 4 Sun 23 Aug 2020 06:00AM UTC

                    It irked me just a tiny bit the idea of vanya being a mistress for five’s unhealthy marriage. Something like Delores would understand when he told her. I didn’t want to bring it up though and seem like I was fishing for info on what happens later. It got my brain going though cause how would that affect both vanya and fives relationship with the twins. Like how are you supposed to feel when you find out your dad is cheating on your mom with your aunt and now they’re having a baby together.

                    I was literally just thinking about that! The same with Allison and Raymond, though they are definitely more stable. Like how is the relationship going to last when eventually the hargreeves have to go back to their own time, and sissy and ray will be senior citizens.

                    I tend to gravitate towards couples that aren’t usually at the forefront of a show, which always sucks for my fan fiction needs. I find the tend to be less toxic/forced because they don’t need the added drama of being the main couple. I enjoy Arthur and Merlin, Thomas and newt, hope and Lizzie. I also don’t mind reading Allison and vanya, I do prefer seeing them as sisters though, cause they deserve to have that bond. They suffered enough for it in season one.

                    I honestly had to look away and sometimes fast forward through those scenes. I do not do well with watching sex scenes. I’m too much of an awkward potato to watch two people pretend to have sex without experiencing secondhand embarrassment. Maybe it’s because I watched titanic too early in live and was traumatized.

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